Raitanator kirjoitti:Totally. Should we like copy it to there and post link to this thread? What do you think?
Do you really have people on side who don't speak English?
Maybe not that many, but there are other reasons, for example all other posts in that thread are in Finnish, so people who don't speak English might not find this discussion if it's hidden inside a Finnish language thread.
Maybe? Sounds like much speculations. But really no problem. Now people who don't like to put an effort the read English would not see it. Really no problem.
(Would be a great chance for dana and giving, if one would translate it if he fear a disadvantage for others)
Johann kirjoitti:People with untrained mind.
When I was 15 years old I had completed 9 years of formal training in mathematics, biology, geography, Finnish language, music and art. Of course the training didn't end there, that was just the basic minimum that everyone must go through.
So where do you find these people with untrained minds?
"Jesus!?" (to take a usual expression), do you think that this is mind training in the sense of Dhamma? You can be sure that you have got a training that pretty has driven you totally outward and into objectification.
Tell a heavy educated person about emptiness and you can be sure that he will be totally confused, at best he would hang around for centuries in forums and discuss matters and concepts.
Johann kirjoitti:Its no secret that many people overestimate "educated Westerns" and what should he say else. Thinks on the millions of battles and struggles, discussions of people about emptiness around the world. Most of them are even not a little aware about own mind and its current state.
Of course it is also true that even in the west some people are more educated and others less.
That is mostly an obstacle. They have a lot of possession and sanjas, concepts... but hardly one even has an idea of mind objects or what is called "emotional intelligence"
If we take a look at Tsongkhapa's commentary on the bodhisattva vows, we can see that the requirement for hearing teachings on emptiness seems to be that the person doesn't become frightened when hearing an unconventional idea:
persons with the bodhichitta motivation who are not yet ready to understand voidness. Such persons would become confused or frightened by this teaching and consequently abandon the bodhisattva path for the path of personal liberation
If we read certain commentaries of "teachers" we can see that they hardly respect the elders and the teachings of long traditions.
Actually the point of this vow is even on another level as meant, I would not even talk about here.
tommi kirjoitti:I find it hard to imagine that a person who is educated enough to watch YouTube would become confused or frightened when hearing of emptiness, and would switch from Mahayana to Hinayana as a result. I would imagine that if a person with even a little formal education hears of a new idea, they will at first think that they don't understand it, but they believe that they can understand it if they continue with their training and education.
As far as I have seen, there are less not totally confused. And I can not imagine what about those who even never let others know about things.
Johann kirjoitti:Of course it's the No. 1 excuses of wrong doings, perfect for it and so very popular.
What do you mean here? Do you mean that the buddhist teaching of emptiness is the no. 1 excuse for doing wrong?
tommi kirjoitti:In the west I would imagine that 90% of people haven't even heard of the buddhist concept of emptiness, so I find it unlikely that it would be used as an excuse for anything.
That would be good, but actually it isn't. Just look at forums. Hardly you would find people talking about parents, gratitude, respect, generosity (you would even get banned after talking about such issues) but long before they even have taken refuge or even take precepts seriously and stick to them, they would talk and mostly even teach such topics.